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I hate bugs.

As stated earlier, almost all development time over the past few days has been monopolized by my ongoing war with a bug. The bug was miscalculating shares, causing all sorts of awful things like: allowing sale of shares shat don’t, negative numbers of shares, and so on. It’s been a long, weary battle. Being neither an economist nor an application developer, I’ve perhaps needed more time than I should have. But, today, I’ve seen the first sign that the bug may be dead. I don;t want to be presumptuous here, but the numbers are looking good this morning. There have been a few anomalies, but nothing like the problems encountered on previous days. In my last post, I questioned whether it was a code problem or legacy problems in the data. If the bug is indeed dead, the best I can say is that it was a combination of the two. In any case, if this is behind us (fingers crossed), I can proceed to start improving the site again. There are some other more minor bugs that I’m aware of, having to do with dividends and some other things, so those will be attended to soon.

I find the current discussion about the effect of taxation fascinating, and I’m currently contemplating the strategy for opening things up. I appreciate everyone’s patience and enthusiasm.

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25 Comments

  1. I would appreciate if the process of changes could be started today or tomorrow,even with slow incremental steps testing each feature and fix.

    The current situation is annoying rich players(i’m not annoyed much but i’ll like to improve it) and has major usability issues(that with pages like add shares showing the whole account summary(which in my case is closely to 1MB), and stocks which lack shares but you have some amount of them don’t show as frozen(with number of shares clearly shown already)) .

    Sell tax is wrong: 50% of value of shares is too much
    Maybe 5% flat tax would be better.

    having fortune cap: prevents from accumulating capital.
    There alot of such players who have reached 1billion revenue.Its not hard,even with 40 million per hour revenue you will reach it in 1 day.People who skip 1 day,would lose everything above that 1 Billion.
    People like me have enough stable revenue to ignore it ,but that only because i have invested in stocks.

    There is too little start funds for everyone to “play” on the market.consider raising the amount.

    The frozen shares concept could be amended somehow,since players who control shares may ignore managing them or simply have too many shares to manage.
    Maybe allowing adding shares by everyone?
    Its could that for every x shares added by non-controlling player ,controller get x/2 of shares and remains in control. shares are available but cost *4 for the player creating them(since he adds only half of shares to public) and same price for everyone else buying them.

  2. “Being neither an economist…”

    It shows. ThotMarket is a great idea with enormous potential but the whole economic system is borked. It’s way to easy to make money. My portfolio is worth 650 billion thollars after just three days and I haven’t cheated of used any glitches. You already have to use harsh measures to restrict huge gains and this only frustrates the people. With more participants the economy would explode. Just compare the number of participants multiplied with 1.000 Thollar starting fund with their combinded wealth. 😉

  3. “The frozen shares concept could be amended somehow,since players who control shares may ignore managing them or simply have too many shares to manage.
    Maybe allowing adding shares by everyone?”
    i see where your going with this.. i see a lot of frozen stocks but i also respect the controllers rights to do what ever they want with the stock.. so i dont think this is the answer because it takes a lot of control from the majority share holder.. even if you can’t take over the share this way.

    there is suppose to be a 4% loss each day you dont log in i think that will take care of people asleep at the wheel, others that do not add shares intentionally my advice is to pull your money out and ignore the stock.

    i agree windfall tax suxs.. im losing billions overnight.. i usually check the site every 1-2 hours that im at the computer but i can’t be at the computer 24hrs a day *rolls eyes*, there are stock i want to invest in but i have to do it slowly cause of the damn windfall tax.

    im not saying there should be no tax.. the sells tax should be tweaked.. some other taxes could be added.. maybe a tax for ipo, adding shares, or divided.
    we could still keep a weekly tax .. but it should tap out at about 5% i think.

  4. “im not saying there should be no tax.. the sells tax should be tweaked.. some other taxes could be added.. maybe a tax for ipo, adding shares, or divided.”

    Well, for example the distributed dividends shouldn’t exceed the received taxes to keep the economy a bit better in balance.

  5. weekly tax is the same as windfall tax.
    Just getting somehow 99% of capital taxed suddenly once a week would make people agitated to say the least.taxes are useless and just restrict capital flow.
    When you can freely buy,sell stocks and accumulate
    any amount of capital market would completely free of
    inhibitions.Right now its a restricted system.

  6. “im losing billions overnight.” I lost 171Billion 4 seconds ago(and managed to save 40Billions in invesetment)

  7. people are under mistaken assumption that removing all the taxes would makes the rich players,super-rich.
    In fact rich would be rich anyway(under any system).
    The taxes prevent normal players from becoming rich,if they do not track their capital every minute.
    They lose more of their total worth then any rich players.

  8. wow just lost 293 trillion immediately after dividends.
    That goes like this dividends,then fortune cap in space of 0.5 seconds.

  9. “weekly tax is the same as windfall tax.
    Just getting somehow 99% of capital taxed suddenly once a week would make people agitated to say the least.taxes are useless and just restrict capital flow.
    When you can freely buy,sell stocks and accumulate
    any amount of capital market would completely free of
    inhibitions.Right now its a restricted system.”

    no.. because i suggest a weekly tax that is truly weekly, not 4 seconds after you receive the dividends, and i suggest it tap out at 5%.

    which is a lot different then the current cap which is taxing me 90% immediately, although i do understand it’s to limit the market untill things can be smoothed out.. it is none the less aggravating.. even with this current cap in place it would be nice ot have a hour or two to reinvest it rather then just be lost.

    ” “im losing billions overnight.” I lost 171Billion 4 seconds ago(and managed to save 40Billions in invesetment)”
    what exactly is your point? or are you just agreeing with me?

    “wow just lost 293 trillion immediately after dividends.
    That goes like this dividends,then fortune cap in space of 0.5 seconds.”
    um.. ya i think i already said that.. why in the world would you sell all of that stock right now i dont know.

    midnight please just do everyone (or perhaps just me) a favor and say what you want to say in a single post.. there is no need to string it out and post every 20mins.

  10. >taxes are useless and just restrict capital flow.
    how very right wing of you. 🙂

    more seriously though, I agree with windcaster that we should have a tax that is not 100%. and that maybe instead of it being a tax on wealth, it could a tax on income?
    the way I see it a [progressive, but small even at high taxable values] income tax combined with a [large] weekly tax on wealth, would even out the Wealth Condensation, while still encouraging investment.

  11. The taxes and the windfall cap are just an indication of the real problem: is the wondrous increase in currency. It’s ridiculous. The economic system in ThotMarket is neither a working market nor well thought out, it just doesn’t work. And I’m so sick of typing zeros… 😉

  12. From the comments of this thot – http://www.thotmarket.com/thot.php?id=MjI0MTE4NjMuMDQ=&cm=1#comments

    “Heh.
    I did blow it up. I sold 80000000000000 stock at $3345755.70/share, which left me with a bank balance of $-999,999,999,985,671,552 as of this posting. -Note the ‘minus’ in front of that amount 😉

    Posted by Grislo on 09-28-07”

    😀

  13. Whats with all the splits graphics in stocks?

  14. Also,could the Bank Balance: detail in the page corner
    be fixed to display full amount of thollars.
    if too much it just truncates the last digits(and sometimes 5 of them) making people guess how much thollars they really onw.

  15. From what I understand, the split graphic is supposed to show that a stock split has occured. This is so when you see a stock dive from 900-odd to very low, you know if it really lost value or if the stock gained value and split. It helps people find good stocks that they couldn’t afford before the split.

    Except I’m seeing it on stocks that definetly have not split in awhile, so either it’s bugged or I’m wrong.

  16. Now that my stocks combined are worth over $1 trillion, I’m really having the same problem as Neko. I lost about ten billion bucks about twenty minutes ago cause I could only invest about 2 billion fast. Right now I have 7 billion sitting around in my bank and I’m just gonna let it die I guess. This cap sucks.

  17. Could there be advanced share search?
    by market cap,price,last dividends,total shares,available shares,date range,shares by user X,number of comments,number of users,etc.

  18. Also the comment limit:once per hour sometimes,
    doesn’t allow to comment even after a hour passes.
    Its works next day though.

  19. I’ve now joined the billionaire’s club. Took me just 2 weeks of fair trading. I can’t decide whether this means it’s too easy to make money or not, since I don’t really know what to do with a lot of it. I would like to be able to hold onto as much of it as I like in ‘cash’ so that I only need invest in (or IPO) things I want to. Otherwise I’ll be investing in any old crap for the sake of it. That won’t help the idea of highlighting good links. As is shown by what’s top of the lists at the moment. Biggest market capitalizations going to nonsense links of people trying to hold on to their thollars. All this easy inflation is going to create bubbles, rather than steady growth (with natural falls). Perhaps less generous dividends/returns, and no earnings caps/taxes would help add stability.

  20. I just sold shares of one stock for 6quintillion $,get taxed for 50% and then my account is showing negative number of thollars -1 quintllion or something.

  21. “I just sold shares of one stock for 6quintillion $,get taxed for 50% and then my account is showing negative number of thollars -1 quintllion or something.”

    At least you don’t ahve to worry about fortune caps for a while 🙂

  22. MidniteNeko, If you leave the stocks for a while without selling or buying, you wouldn’t get taxed anywhere near as much.

  23. Heh… Is anyone else having trouble feeling pity for MidniteNeko and the other insanely wealthy players in the game? The guy must have several quadrillion dollars at this point, and could easily buy out half of the stocks in the game if he wanted to.

    What this game REALLY needs at this point is a daily growth cap. Sorry man, but any algorithm that allows a stock to go from 2 cents to $165,000 a share in just a few minutes has some SERIOUS bugs! Try setting something like a 100% daily growth limit, and I’ll bet that a lot of these trading problems will go away.

  24. Thats like saying stop playing and investing and leave that site. I would definitely leave until all these bugs are removed.If i can’t accumulate 6Quintillion somehow,
    its not a “Limit” its flaw in the system that can’t handle it.
    its breaks after 10^18 thollars.
    and these quintillions are results of chain of investment each one returning multiple of invested sum(x100-x1000).
    THEY are not coming from thin air.
    To give an example of my problem(at start):
    Each time i sells shares for x100 profit(e.g. from 0.02 to 4.00 (becuase of 50% tax)) i multiply my capital
    in vested by 100. here is table of how fast i get quintillions from 1K thollars(i start from step 4 thouh):
    Investement #: Return in thollars
    ——————————————
    1st= 100 K(from 1K start)
    2nd= 10 M
    3rd= 1 B
    4th=100 B
    5th=10 T
    6th=1 Q
    7th=100 Q
    8Th=10 QN
    (K=kilo,thousand 10^3,M=Million10^6,B=Billion 10^9,T=trillion 10^12,Q=quadrillion 10^15,QN=quintillion 10^18,)
    after 8th investement(or 4th if i invest 100Billion) I cannot sell shares becuase
    the system cannot handle 10^18 tholalrs in the account giving me negative thollars in balance.

  25. I think of course with enough patience and dedication i can get to 1e308 double float limit in 308/2=154 investement steps of x100.That would take 154days at least(1/2 year).
    with bigger returns(e.g. 0.02 to 500: x12500)
    its 308/4=77days roughly 2.5months of game-time.

    Even with stocks value multiplied by 2 (each hour from 0.02 to 0.08 with sell tax of 50% =0.04)
    it would take 1024 hours to get to 1e308(2^1024=1e308) 1024 hours=102 days(10hours per day).
    Combined value of many such stocks would greater then double float limit and will be represented as Inf(positive infinity) net worth .

    Unlike arbitrarily precision calculators,this SQL stock market cannot handle anything above 1e308.


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